Redherring.com Chat
Warren Spector treated all of us to a nice moderated chat on Monday, December 11th 2000, courtesy of Redherring.com and the Mcgraw-Hill Companies.
{Warren Spector}: :welcome to gaming in the new millennium
{Warren Spector}: Deus Ex II is a follow up to Deus Ex which we
shipped earlier this eyar
{Warren Spector}: and will continue the adventures of JC Denton
{Warren Spector}: and Thief III is the continuation of a series
begun
by Looking Glass
{Warren Spector}: we're really happy to have picked that up when
Looking Glass went out of business
{Dean Takahashi}: tell us why you wanted to do these sequels.
{Warren Spector}: A lot of the members of the original teams
{Warren Spector}: from Deus Ex and Thief are working on both projects
{Warren Spector}: As for why do sequels
{Warren Spector}: there are a lot of reasons
{Warren Spector}: the crass commercial one is obvious
{Warren Spector}: publishers like certainty and they're putting up the
money
{Warren Spector}: but in the case of Deus Ex II and T3, there
were
personal reasons as well
{Warren Spector}: The world of Deus Ex ended up being more open
and interesting than any of us expected...
{Warren Spector}: and there are lots of stories to tell in that universe
{Warren Spector}: and with regard to Thief...
{Warren Spector}: it was always planned as a trilogy
{Warren Spector}: even when I was at Looking Glass before Thief I
came out
{Warren Spector}: we talked about having a 3-part story...
{Warren Spector}: and Looking Glass went out of business before
the
3rd story was told
{Warren Spector}: and so there is almost a sense of obligation about T3...
{Warren Spector}: we have to finish the story
soulsounds: much tears over that
{Dean Takahashi}: here is another question: Langly: What are the
advantages of using one game engine over the other?
{Warren Spector}: There are several really powerful game engines
out
there right now
{Warren Spector}: and when you evaluate them you look for a lot of
things...
{Warren Spector}: how easily extended is the engine...
{Warren Spector}: what are the dollars and cents of the deal...
{Warren Spector}: how well documented is the code
{Warren Spector}: how much support does the developer of the
engine provide...
{Warren Spector}: and a host of other things
{Dean Takahashi}: boone: How long until we see another product with your
name attached?
{Warren Spector}: we're hoping to release something as yet unannounced
{Warren Spector}: for next Christmas
{Warren Spector}: but the reason it is un announced is because we don't
want to make too many promises
{Warren Spector}: Deus Ex II and T3 are full-scale projects
{Warren Spector}: and so it will be at least two years
{Dean Takahashi}: Langly: Do you think that the costs of games will
increase in the future as new technology is released?
{Warren Spector}: the cost of games always increases...
{Warren Spector}: it's one of the most frightening and disturbing aspect
of this business...
{Warren Spector}: and the thing that puts this business most at risk, I
think.
{Dean Takahashi}: soulsounds: What about the future of AI and NPC
interactivity in the near future?
{Warren Spector}: Those are clearly two of the areas where we have the
most work to do...
{Warren Spector}: especially in games of the sort that I tend to become
involved with
{Warren Spector}: we're trying to make the most immersive simulations
possible
{Warren Spector}: typically we try to set games if not in the real world,
then in a believable representation of a real world
{Warren Spector}: and if you may have noticed, an important part of the
real world is people
{Warren Spector}: so not having NPC's that behave in believable ways and
react to player's actios in believable ways is absolutely critical...
{Warren Spector}: and so far we have always failed at that...
{Warren Spector}: so there is a lot of work to be done in AI
{Dean Takahashi}: Guest 7023: How do you feel about the future of PC
development? Do you think Ion Storm could ever be a company that only
develops games for Consoles?
{Warren Spector}: I can see a future where we have no choice about that...
{Warren Spector}: I don't think we're there yet
{Warren Spector}: but I do think we're at a point where you can't just say
"you're a PC -only" developer...
{Warren Spector}: those days are gone
{Warren Spector}: and without revealing too much here....
{Warren Spector}: I think you'll see us moving to a multiple platform
strategy
{Warren Spector}: It's the only way to stay in business and to keep making
the games you want to play
{Dean Takahashi}: one from me: do you think consoles will go online in a
big way?
{Warren Spector}: It seems inevitible that consoles will go online
{Warren Spector}: the interesting question is whether I do!
{Warren Spector}: I'm not that big a fan of multi-player stuff,
personally.
{Warren Spector}: So it is an interesting question.
{Warren Spector}: I like single-player character driven experiences
{Warren Spector}: So it is an open question...how we'll approach online
development
{Dean Takahashi}: ACHTUNG!: Cool! You're getting Looking Glass Studios
liscences? What about another System Shock? that would be cool!
{Warren Spector}: But I think it is inevitible that we will have to deal
with that in the near future...regardless of the platforms we choose to use
{Warren Spector}: Yeah, I'd about kill to make another System Shock
soulsounds: me too
{Warren Spector}: Unfortunately the Electronic Arts owns the trademark...
{Warren Spector}: and with Looking Glass going out of business, I don't
even know who owns the copyright anymore
{Warren Spector}: But if some enterprising lawyer
{Warren Spector}: wanted to do the research for me, count on it! I'd do it
in a heart beat
{Dean Takahashi}: Hodag: how do you think virtual reality hardware will
influence game development?
{Warren Spector}: It's hard to say...
{Warren Spector}: I've always wanted it to just take off
{Warren Spector}: Back when I was at Origin every first-person game I did
supported
{Warren Spector}: whatever VR headsets were available
{Warren Spector}: :boy there are some funny stories associated with that
too
{Warren Spector}: but the headsets were too heavy or the headtracking
wasn't responsive enough...
{Warren Spector}: or the resolution was too low for you to see anything...
{Warren Spector}: so it never really took off and happened
{Warren Spector}: It seems now there is no one working on it from a
commercial standpoint
{Warren Spector}: I'd like to do some more VR stuff in the future...
{Warren Spector}: but it doesn't seem worth the time or effort right
{Dean Takahashi}: Darkstalker: Are you going to maintain the same FPS/RPG
hybrid style for DX 2?
{Warren Spector}: Absolutely!
{Dean Takahashi}: boone: What is your opinion on the acquisition of
various developers by major publishers? Digital Anvil by Microsoft, for
instance.
{Warren Spector}: One of the core design paradigms of Deus Ex is
cross-genre approach
{Warren Spector}: and there is no way we're moving away from it
{Warren Spector}: The acquisition of developers seem both inevitible and
depressing to me
{Warren Spector}: I think you're going to see a lot more of that in the
future
{Warren Spector}: and it has some advantages, both for developers and for
publishers and players...
{Warren Spector}: but it also means developers are going to have to fight
even harder to do things that are innovative and risky
{Dean Takahashi}: Weeemann: Have you chosen an Engine for Deus Ex 2 yet or
is it still to early to tell?
{Warren Spector}: It's too early to say anything about that now, sorry
{Dean Takahashi}: Gamesbond: hi my name is vishal and i am ceo of
indiagames a games development company based out of mumbai,india
{Warren Spector}: :wow!
{Dean Takahashi}: Gamesbond: my question to u is what do you think of the
global scalability of the games business and how do u think it can be
achieved
{Warren Spector}: In some respects, we're already global and have been for
years
{Warren Spector}: My games have always sold better in Europe, for example,
than they have in the United States
{Warren Spector}: Every one
{Warren Spector}: It gets a little more difficult when you're talking
about emerging markets
{Warren Spector}: which I can only imagine India to be...or places like
Israel
{Warren Spector}: We have Israel sales and Portuguese Sales...
{Warren Spector}: doing localized versions of games is still very
expensive and difficult...
{Warren Spector}: typically we work with translators in those other
markets...
{Warren Spector}: but there has to be enough of a market to justify it
{Dean Takahashi}: Klingon: But after the sequels, what happens then? You
must surely have a dream that you would like to turn into a game?
{Warren Spector}: haha...I have more dreams that I want to turn into games
than I have time to make them!
{Warren Spector}: In the short term, there is a fantasy game I want to
make
{Warren Spector}: and I hope that once DXII and T3 are in full
production...
{Warren Spector}: with great teams led by Harvey Smith and Randy Smith
respectively, I can actually get back to that fantasy game...
{Warren Spector}: and get that started.
{Warren Spector}: I've spoken many times about what I call the one-block
Role-playing game...
{Warren Spector}: and there's another tiny little action game that I've
wanted to do for years
{Warren Spector}: that no publisher has been foolish enough to fund yet
{Warren Spector}: Ideas really are a dime a dozen...
soulsounds: they wouldn't fund The Sims either
{Warren Spector}: and the trick is picking the ones that are both cool and
make commercial sense
{Warren Spector}: and that your teams want to build
{Warren Spector}: and right now that means focusing on DXII and T3
{Warren Spector}: but I assure you, there will be some newer "just as cool
stuff"
{Dean Takahashi}: tell us about one block again. i like that idea, but
wonder if the sims has gotten there first?
{Warren Spector}: coming from this office before you know it
{Warren Spector}: I don't see the Sims as the same idea or competive
really
{Warren Spector}: I think my work tends to be more story oriented than
Will Wright's
{Warren Spector}: and I think Will Wright's games...
{Warren Spector}: they rely entirely on the player to drive the action
{Warren Spector}: and what I try to do is accept players as collaborators
in what I hope is an interesting synthesis
{Dean Takahashi}: for the benefit of those who don't know one block: it's
a complete simulation of life in one block of a city. right?
{Warren Spector}: sort of...
{Warren Spector}: it's a story that takes place on a map that is one city
block
{Warren Spector}: and that block is so deeply simulated that you can
interact with it
{Warren Spector}: basically however you want
{Warren Spector}: where every NPC has a life of his or her own
{Warren Spector}: and every room is completely interactive
{Warren Spector}: and where you can go back again and again and again and
try different things
{Warren Spector}: and have the story play itself out differently
{Warren Spector}: but there still is a story...
{Warren Spector}: and at some level that story belongs to the developer
and the team
{Warren Spector}: where as the minute-to-minute experience of that story
belongs to the player
{Dean Takahashi}: soulsounds: Gotta ask, are you developing for the XBox?
{Warren Spector}: and the fact that I'm willing to accept responsibility
for so much of the game is what I think seperates this idea from the Sims...
{Warren Spector}: which is much more free-form
{Warren Spector}: No comment
{Warren Spector}: : )
{Dean Takahashi}: EdGann: If you could, what is the one thing you would
change in Deus Ex?
{Warren Spector}: Only one? haha
{Warren Spector}: The AI
{Warren Spector}: Scott Martin, the programmer, did an amazing job...
{Warren Spector}: of recreating human behavior
{Warren Spector}: and making it work, more importantly, in the context of
the game
{Warren Spector}: but the times when as a player of DX I'm most often
reminded I'm "just playing a game"
{Warren Spector}: pretty much all have to do with break-downs in the AI
{Warren Spector}: again, I would have to emphasize this...
{Warren Spector}: not to take anything away from the job Scott did
{Warren Spector}: I don't think any other game has done a better job than
Scott did
{Warren Spector}: but again, there is still so much we have to do..so
again, it would be the AI
{Dean Takahashi}: MagicBoy: What are your feelings on the growing Deus Ex
community? The mods?DJPaul: what Mod are you looking forward to the most?
{Warren Spector}: I'm thrilled at the growing Deus Ex community!
{Warren Spector}: One of our biggest goals as developers nowadays is
specifically to build that
{Warren Spector}: for a bunch of reasons
{Warren Spector}: games take so long to develop now, that we unfortunately
have to rely on the community
{Warren Spector}: to provide ongoing content to keep people interested in
our game worlds
{Warren Spector}: while we're coming up with the next game
{Warren Spector}: the development of the community shows that we really
touched people
{Warren Spector}: sometimes in ways we didn't anticipate...that is
incredibly cool
{Warren Spector}: there is just so much we can do to have a devoted,
dedciated fan base
{Warren Spector}: is unbelievable and the best thing that can happen to a
game
{Warren Spector}: as for which Mod I'm most looking forward to....
{Warren Spector}: that's another big "no comment" : )
{Dean Takahashi}: soulsounds: Do you think games will become subscription
based, that is, AOL owns everything?
{Warren Spector}: uh..haha...I think AOL has a fight on its hands!
{Warren Spector}: But, whoever wins or however many people win,
{Warren Spector}: I don't think everything is going subscription base
{Warren Spector}: because I don't think everything is going to go
online...
{Warren Spector}: I really believe in the future of single-player boxed
games...
{Warren Spector}: we'll have online components and downloadable content...
{Warren Spector}: but I don't see the comp-USA's and the EB's going away
{Dean Takahashi}:
g boone: Who do you see as the audience for your future games? Hardcore
gamers, as seemed to be the case with Deus Ex, or are you going to try to
appeal to a newer crowd?
{Warren Spector}: Well here's the sad true confession...
{Warren Spector}: Deux Ex was an attempt to reach a broader audience : )
{Warren Spector}: I think the trick is to provide games that are easy to
get into...
{Warren Spector}: but reward persistent play
{Warren Spector}: In other words...
{Warren Spector}: You don't want a steep learning curve
{Warren Spector}: so casual gamers can start having fun right away...
{Warren Spector}: but you want games systems that reward the hard-core
gamer who really puts in the time
{Warren Spector}: and figures out how to exploit them
{Warren Spector}: Diablo I think did that as well as any game ever
{Warren Spector}: You can go through Diablo without worrying too much
about your inventory...
{Warren Spector}: without worrying about what potions you're carrying
around...you can go through Diablo with just click click click like mad
{Dean Takahashi}:
g Klingon: Klingon to Warren: If you were to make a game out of a movie,
which one would you choose?
{Warren Spector}: so the casual gamers are happy...
{Warren Spector}: but geeks like me can sit there and Mim-max to our
hearts content
{Warren Spector}: that's the win
{Warren Spector}: Deux Ex or Thief, of course!
{Warren Spector}: Deus Ex : )
{Dean Takahashi}:
g david: Is the closing of Looking Glass a statement about the current pc
gaming business?
{Warren Spector}: On one level I guess it is
{Warren Spector}: You know, Looking Glass, Digital Anvil
{Warren Spector}: you're going to see developers going out of business or
being sucked up by larger developers or publishers
{Warren Spector}: there are a lot of reasons why Looking Glass went
away...
{Warren Spector}: not all of them indicitive of major trends in the market
{Warren Spector}: I was really sorry to see it go though, that's for sure
{Dean Takahashi}: Badman: Did you play Shenmue? If so, how close did that
come to fulfilling your one-block RPG goal?
{Warren Spector}: yeah, I've played some Shenmue...
{Warren Spector}: why don't we go to the next question?...
{Warren Spector}: : )
{Dean Takahashi}: oulsounds: What about adaptive games, that adjust to the
user's skill level dynamically, when will we see those?
{Warren Spector}: I think we're pretty darn close
{Warren Spector}: and in some ways you're already seeing it
{Warren Spector}: you know, racing games adapt all the time
{Warren Spector}: you may not like to think about it but racing games
cheat horribly
{Warren Spector}: what's more interesting to me isn't adapting to the
players skill level
{Warren Spector}: but adapting to player's play style choices
{Warren Spector}: that's something we try to do in Deus Ex and will do
more of in the future
{Warren Spector}: one of the biggest traps games developers fall into
{Warren Spector}: is making games that force palyers to guess what the
designers were thinking
{Warren Spector}: in other words...
{Warren Spector}: there's only one solution to each problem
{Warren Spector}: in Deus Ex we try to provide multiple solutions to each
problem
{Warren Spector}: and the same goes for Thief and Systom Shock and
Underworld
{Warren Spector}: We wanted the player to determine his path through the
game
{Warren Spector}: and then the game adapt to the player's choices
{Warren Spector}: that is more interesting to me than adapting to skill or
difficulty
{Dean Takahashi}: Lanezeri: Are you worried about the piracy and other
illegal acts that go on in the online experiences today?
{Warren Spector}: and I wish more game developers felt that way
{Warren Spector}: Well, remember, I don't make online games : )
{Warren Spector}: We just released the beta version of the multi-player
patch for Deus Ex
{Warren Spector}: and that is literally my first experience with a
multi-player online game
{Warren Spector}: but having said that...
{Warren Spector}: I've never been as worried as I probably should be about
piracy
{Warren Spector}: :my publisher is going to hate me for saying this
{Warren Spector}: but my anectodal experience is
{Warren Spector}: the people who pirate your game wouldn't have bought it
anyway...
{Warren Spector}: so you're not losing any money
{Warren Spector}: I just make the games and let the publishers worry about
that : )
{Dean Takahashi}: your publisher will like this one too:david: Is there a
future for independent online publishers who bypass retail (e.g. Big Time
with Combat Mission) and distibute directly to consumers?
{Warren Spector}: If you asked me this question before Combat Mission
{Warren Spector}: I would have said there is no future for independent
publishers at all
{Warren Spector}: the success of Combat Mission really has me thinking
{Warren Spector}: I honestly don't know...
{Warren Spector}: that's the bottom line
{Warren Spector}: I'm glad that people are trying this and I hope they
succeed
{Warren Spector}: because if they do, that opens up interesting
opportunities for all of us...
{Warren Spector}: developers and gamers
{Dean Takahashi}: UncleJeet: Do you think gaming will ever evolve into
something other than the polygonal realization of prepubescant fantasies?
{Warren Spector}: hahaha...
{Warren Spector}: I like to think we've already moved beyond that in some
cases!
{Warren Spector}: I think the interesting question in there
{Warren Spector}: is whether we have the creativity, I guess/
{Warren Spector}: to move beyond Orcs and Elves and fantasy tropes lifted
from our old D&D experiences
{Warren Spector}: I think it is vital that we move away from that and
toward something that...
{Warren Spector}: that the mass market might be interested in
{Warren Spector}: with development costs going up and sales being pretty
much stagnent
{Warren Spector}: we have to find ways to reach larger audiences
{Warren Spector}: and that means making games set in the real world
{Warren Spector}: or more adult science fiction settings, or something
{Warren Spector}: so I guess I agree with the questioner but not
necessarily with the attitude ; )
{Dean Takahashi}: to wrap it up, what did you think of our story on
games?any quibbles with the arguments about how hard it is to reach wider
demographics? were you misquoted? thanks for great answers.
{Warren Spector}: I thought it was a great story
{Warren Spector}: and I'm not just saying that
{Warren Spector}: I could probably quibble with just about any argument
{Warren Spector}: but at least we're discussing the difficulties with
developres and publishers
{Warren Spector}: I think we're at the point where that article and
articles like it
{Warren Spector}: start a dialog that we really need to have
{Warren Spector}: and thanks for having me!
{Dean Takahashi}: thanks everyone for great questions, and thanks to
warren for his answers. warren, you're popular. there were way to many
questinos for me to ask. and thanks to the mcgraw-hill companies, our
sponsor.
Thanks to Lordie from Planet Daikatana for the log
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