My first contact with Harvey Smith was in ION's chat channel back in early '98. When I found out he was a part of the "Shooter" team (Deus Ex's then working title), I asked if he was a mapper. Witchboy quickly pointed out that none of them were mappers; rather, they were 'designers'. This distinction wouldn't make sense to me for many years...
Fast forward to today, where Deus Ex has just been named PCGamer and Gamespy's Game of the Year. Harvey Smith is now the lead in charge of the sequel, and it's unlikely that anyone will ask him "if he's a mapper" ever again. We were lucky enough to get to ask witchboy some questions about his new project, and what he and his team plan to do with this critically acclaimed franchise.
[Planet Deus Ex]You've done it... survived the long journey from QA to being the lead on a
hugely significant title. Is your job now how you pictured it being back
during the System Shock 1 days?
[witchboy]
Yes, that was the dream, for me. But back when I was in QA at Origin, I was
fairly clueless about game development as a professional, artistic and
technical process. So "how I pictured it" was never very accurate to begin
with. It's weird to want something so bad, without actually understanding
what it is.
Prior to Origin, like a lot of people, I played a ton of games, wrote
SF/Fantasy fiction and liked working with small teams. This was, of course,
a fraction of what I really needed in terms of accomplishing anything. Since
then I've absorbed a lot about deconstructing games, designing game
mechanics, facilitating team chemistry and aiding in the creation of game
technology.
I've been very lucky in that I've always had the option of working with
people from whom I could learn. Origin, Looking Glass, Multitude and ION
Storm Austin are all places where, at various times, people with passion for
games have come together to share ideas, collaborate, help each other grow
(personally and professionally) and support each other against the
tempestuous fury of the game development business.
I've also worked in a variety of roles, which has helped me develop a wider
understanding of what everyone goes through.
[Planet Deus Ex]What criticisms of Deus Ex do you think are the most noteworthy? How do you
plan to account for these issues in the sequel?
[witchboy]
Some of the criticisms have been dead on target. Overall, we've gotten
mostly great press, reviews and fan support. But nothing is perfect, sadly.
Hardware incompatibility and schizophrenic AI are two of the big ones. The
ION Storm Austin team has put a lot of thought into how we want to approach
these issues in the next cycle. The team has a bunch of ideas about how to
improve the DX experience...it's a fun group to work with, in any case.
(Sorry if I'm being vague--I know we had some problems and I know what our
plans are for addressing them, but I can't go into details yet or the angry
gods of PR will censor me.)
On the subject of deficiencies, though, in trying to come to grips with some
of the scattered complaints, my first thought is that everyone has different
tastes and perceptions. One reviewer said, "Why is the story so
unimaginative, convoluted, and cliché-riddled?" At the same time, we won
"Best Runner Up--Story" from one site and we've gotten dozens of letters
saying that we created one of the most memorable, flexible and/or intriguing
interactive stories ever. Which opinion is right? Both or neither--like a
lot of creative elements, "story" is a subjective issue. Every time I think
I've identified a game that I consider "the worst RPG ever" (because it
violates some concept or annoys me in some way), for instance, I meet
someone who absolutely loves the same game and can back this opinion up. I'm
not so fascist (any more) as to believe that my opinion is intrinsically
more important than anyone else's.
Also, people sometimes fail to see your goals and they fail to understand
that development is a series of trade-offs. There are ways in which we've
"succeeded" in accordance with our goals, deliberately sacrificing something
else to get there. For instance, someone complained that JC--the
protagonist--was emotionally flat in relation to some of the game's other
characters. We deliberately played JC 'toned down' so that his reactions
invalidated the player's own emotional reactions as seldom as possible. We
wanted to let the player connect with the world as closely as possible--to
feel as if they were exploring a real place, as if *the player himself* were
in the world, not just JC. If JC had strong reactions or took definite
stands on issues/events, and the player's reaction was in opposition to
JC's, it would be jarring for the player. (You see this all the time in
games where your character reacts in a way that you, the player, would not
have.) So while we ended up with a less vibrant lead character, it allowed
JC to get out of the way--to allow the player his own reactions. It was a
trade off--we're more interested in letting the player explore a world than
we are in telling a story.
On a personal note, I'll say that people reviewing games rarely seem
consistent in their views. One reviewer said we used "tired RPG clichés,
like searching bodies for loot." This same reviewer, when "analyzing"
another (much more "traditional" RPG) said something like, "The game uses
such familiar and comfortable RPG staples as humans, elves, dwarves,
gnobbits, orcs, and pixies." Why is one case a cliché and the other a
staple? Don't ask me, I only work here.
[Planet Deus Ex]Some criticisms of DX were purely technical in nature, such as the AI. Is it
possible to EVER address all of these prior to shipping?
[witchboy]
I believe that it is absolutely impossible to create something that will
make everyone so happy that no one ever has any complaints. You get as close
as you can and you put some degree of faith in "fun," under the assumption
that if people find something subjectively fun, they will ignore some of the
problems.
[Planet Deus Ex]Did Deus Ex prove that critical acclaim equals strong sales? Or are fans and
developers of First Person Thinkers always going to have to worry about
games like these getting made?
[witchboy]
Success, as determined purely by sales, is a mystery to me. I'd like to say,
"If the game is fun, I feel like we've been successful," but fun alone does
not keep companies alive. Yes, we worried a lot. In short, if your tastes
are not perfectly in line with the mass market, you will probably always
need to worry.
[Planet Deus Ex]Despite there being no official announcement about your choice of engine
yet, it's probably a safe assumption that it'll be one of the 'big three'
(Unreal, Quake/Doom, or Lithtech). These all now have natural terrain as a
feature. What kind of design issues does terrain bring up, or is it even
relevant to the kind of game spaces that Deus Ex 2 will have?
[witchboy]
Outdoor terrain is definitely something we want to take advantage of. Also,
from an outdoor simulation standpoint, we plan on [CENSORED BY THE ANGRY
GODS OF PR], which should be *really* cool. One of the things, in general,
I'd watch for when using terrain in a game like ours is creating wide, empty
landscapes with little density of interest. Games like Ultima VII did an
okay job of providing something interesting every few hundred yards in the
Great Forest (of Yew?). But other, similar RPG's have provided all this
wilderness space and allowed the player to walk forever without providing
for anything interesting (and often the player has to backtrack out of some
cul-de-sac). And a few clones of Sid Meier's Pirates have, for some reason,
assumed that sailing endlessly through empty oceans might be fun. Powerful
outdoor terrain features have to be thought through, like everything
else--they affect lots of things like the optimum player movement speed,
which is also tied to other aspects of the game, like the pacing of play.
It's not like you can just throw a switch and generate miles of terrain...
[Planet Deus Ex]Even if this isn't the place to announce it (it's okay, we understand :P),
has ION Austin at least internally settled on a technological base for Deus
Ex 2 yet?
[witchboy]
We're going to [CENSORED BY THE ANGRY GODS OF PR]. I hope that answers the
question.
[Planet Deus Ex]Did the decision to develop multiplayer for Deus Ex adversely affect the
schedule for Deus Ex 2 at all?
[witchboy]
Hmm, I work with most of those guys, so I have to be careful or they might
quit playing D&D with me. So...yes and no. Yes, in the sense that they
toiled away daily getting mp out when they could have been working with the
rest of us on the next game. No, in that what they learned will greatly help
us with DX2. Some of the new team members developed important working
relationships during that time, added some new ideas to the DX melting pot
and helped streamline some features from DX1.
[Planet Deus Ex]DX had more than 25 different offensive weapons and items, an uncountable
number of world items, and more than 120 fully modeled/skinned/animated
creatures. Even purely from an asset creation standpoint, how the HELL will
the sequel top that?
[witchboy]
We're tripling the size of the development team! (Just kidding.) DX would be
improved by better execution, some new systems, more depth, fewer problems.
But we want to go much further than that. We now know what DX actually is,
which sounds simple, but isn't. With regard to DX1, we spent a lot of time
and energy just figuring out what kind of game we were making, which sounds
dumb, but isn't. Now we can ignore some of that and focus on improving the
meaningful aspects of the game. We can make simulation and emergence a more
prominent part of the experience. We want to expand some old systems--we
have interesting new plans so far for some otherwise "familiar" DX concepts.
Also, within the kind of environment we're creating, there are new tool
concepts for interesting forms of interaction. And now the programmer
writing the AI code has the added luxury of looking at DX1 and understanding
what the game is all about and which AI features will be most useful.
[Planet Deus Ex]You guys managed to create a huge game in terms of both design and asset
production, and even go through a fairly in-depth rewrite partway through,
and still got it done in a reasonable amount of time. Was that just some
magical team/focus sweet spot, or can you picture it happening again with
DX2?
[witchboy]
This is hard for me to answer--when I see the game, I just see the things I
would have changed. I'm glad people love Deus Ex, but the question sort of
implies that we created a really memorable game, like Underworld or Dungeon
Master, which is for others to determine, not me. I will say that I think
the team was very talented. We (eventually) ended up with a strong
understanding of what our goals were. We fought a lot, sadly, which I don't
think was completely necessary. Some working relationships were damaged
beyond repair. And, yes, we did go through several significant rewrites and
system revisions mid-stream. We fought major wars over the type of game we
were making. Trivial issues consumed time and energy that could have
smoothed out more important aspects of the game. (You would not believe how
much blood was spilled over whether the player-character should have a name
or not.)
Will DX2 be as successful as DX1? The same core mission designers and
conversation writer are working on the game. Plus me, Warren, some old
friends from Origin and some very talented people picked up from other game
companies (including Looking Glass). We have more support this time from
Eidos. We have a better understanding of the game we're making. And the DX
universe now feels alive with possibility, whereas before we were just
struggling with raw chaos, trying to figure out *what* the DX universe
actually was to begin with. I feel like this time, we are--as
developers--even more educated about what makes an immersive sim action game
work.
We'll give it our best shot.
[Planet Deus Ex]With all the design work for the major Deus Ex game systems like the
augmentation/bioenergy and skills already done in the first game, do you
wish that there was still major design work like that left to do?
[witchboy]
Well, as part of the team that created the DX RPG system, I happen to like
it a lot. I think it affords the player strategic control over the ways in
which he interacts with the world. So it's true that we'll be keeping most
of this. But we're changing parts of it too. Some parts don't work as well
as they could. For instance, [CENSORED BY THE ANGRY GODS OF PR]. Some
aspects of the system will be folded together, strengthening certain
character choices. Other parts we be radically expanded. We're basically
going to try to extend the player's interactions tools whenever possible.
And we'll be adding a couple of altogether new systems. Also, we definitely
want to include many more character creation options for the player. But, as
always, we believe that the choices should be mechanically or stylistically
meaningful, not just fluff. That's part of our manifesto: high fidelity
world re-creation, strategic thinking, self-expression, atmosphere and
freedom.
Planet Deus Ex would like to thank Harvey for the great information, and for all the support over the years.
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